"There will also be a suspicion that this is the thin end of the wedge, that we are being softened up by making fingerprinting seem normal in the run-up to things like ID cards."

...wait, fingerprints are less intrusive than ID cards? IDs I can fake.

Because it has to be said, and with that I'd like to be the one to say it:

Airstrip One.

Here in the US, we have some strong legal-type words about "unreasonable search and seizure." Does England have something comparable?

Well, if they don't "Revolution" has a nice ring to it.

So... terrorist buys his ticket. Walks up to first sensor. Gets scanned. Walks up to second sensor. Gets scanned. Walks onto plane. Blows it up shortly thereafter.

Not really seeing how this is supposed to stop a terrorist. I tend to credit terrorists with enough brains not to send the guy with the police record.

The sad truth is that the UK doesn't have the same level of public awareness of the erosion of civil liberties this sort of nonsense promotes. Here's a BBC story from 18 months ago about fingerprints being required for car rental, for goodness' sake.

UK-based readers who would like to support the fight against it may find the wonderful human rights organisation Liberty a good fit.

Is "The Execution Channel" showing on Sky yet?

Am I wrong to have a perverse pride in seeing the UK leading the way and breaking new ground in Surveillance within a Liberal Democracy? Where the UK is now, you will be. Makes a change from; what happens in California eventually happens everywhere else.

Mine's the hoody with the embedded infra red lasers and tinfoil lining.

As if Heathrow wasn't fun enough already, what with the announcing of the gates 10 minutes before boarding and the always delightful shoe-and-laptop-stripping.
Next time I visit the UK, I'll take the ferry, thank you very much. And busses, trains and rental cars.

There's a delicious irony in a fully automated total surveillance state. It's only the criminals who are completely free. We're seeing this corollary in the UK now. Drive a car with no tax, insurance and a fake number plate (or better yet somebody else's) and you're completely immune from parking fines, the congestion charge, bus lane penalties, speeding tickets and so on. Get to know exactly where the cameras are (especially out of town) and you can treat most of the country as your own private race track.

I wonder when someone (with money) will be kind enough to drop a million copies of "1984" over London, to wake these sheeple up. The world's turned into such a fearful place, and it's sad to witness.

Look, it's either this or the terrorists waltz right through and blow something up.

This is not about preventing terrorism. This is about immigration controls. The fingerprinting enables BAA to mix domestic and international passengers in the same departure lounge (with the same lucrative shopping opportunities) without allowing internationally connecting passengers to board domestic flights and hence skip passport control.

The same system is going up in all terminals where BAA is planning to mix domestic and international traffic.

Thanks for pointing out this latest piece of nonsense.

As Daemon says, all the terrorists have to do is get better at disguising their intentions, become sleepers, build an honest life for themselves, obey the law, get all the ID in the proper way, then walk onto a plane and blow themselves up. It's not exactly rocket science.

In fact, I think the incompetent Glasgow fire-bombers held responsible, respectable positions in local society - presumably they would have qualified for all the proper ID.

And I would also have thought that, if pushed into a corner by measures like this, terrorists would begin to use innocent people as bombers, kidnapping families and holding them hostage, like the more unpleasant bank robbers do now.

Another argument for flying via France and connecting through London City Airport. Which is so small that it takes about ten minutes to check in and clear security when departing, and about the same to get your bags on arrival. It's also far less hassle to get in and out of central London to LCY than Heathrow.

Just came through Heathrow Terminal 1 yesterday (March 7). In order to access the shopping area/lounge of the terminal, one had to submit to the mentioned fingerprint and photograph. The scary part was not the loss of privacy, but the fact THEY DONT CLEAN THE FINGERPRINT PAD! Yessiree, by touching that pad, I just shook hands with 10000 people from all over the globe, right in the middle of flu season

That only works if terrorists are so picky about which domestic flight they blow up that they have to blow up one coming from terminal 5.

Today Terminal 5, tomorrow the world.

Why don't they just rename it "Terminal Maginot," for cripes' sake.

May I suggest:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/IdentityAct

My conspiracy theory is that it's all a massive marketing effort...fingerprint travelers, then correlate their movements vis a vis all the advertising nonsense that covers every surface, and voila!

Ok, so not really. But the place has certainly was conceived as a nightmare, and built to deliver one to every hapless traveler. I wrote a bit about BAA's vision for a horrible travel experience at DIM BULB: http://dimbulb.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/02/tell-me-about-m.html.

And that stuff about fingerprint pads all gummed up with other folk's schmear? Yuck!

Welcome to the future.

Once again, I fail to see what this is going to achieve other than stop people using Heathrow. Collosal waste of time and money.

It's been a while since the UK had an election. I kind of wonder if there will even be another one.

Yet another step into the TOTAL Big Brother mentality that is becoming C21st Britain...

DESPITE promises to the contrary when the system was initially installed, your car is now tracked by the traffic camera network wherever it goes on the road network,

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2005/221205surveillanceuk.htm

and you are filmed 300x in a day in central London.

How much longer before we need to show ID to travel on the tube! (Oh yes, I forgot... Our oyster cards (pre-paid travel cards...) ALREADY track our movements on the public transport networks....)

BIG BROTHER IS ALREADY WATCHING YOU in the UK!

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/03/07/heathrow-terminal-5-1.html

So much for personal liberty!

Not so frightening (I hear you say...) whilst in the hands of reasonably well-behaved government, but essentially everything is in place for complete state control, and that is a very unhealthy state of affairs.

As to EH's comment "Look, it's either this or the terrorists waltz right through and blow something up." What a load of TOTAL BOLLOCKS!!!! This will not help prevent terrorism even SLIGHTLY!

I'll put the anthrax in the fingerprint ink pad

Too, too late for you all, but have you thought about your children? Collect documents as they grow, double register them under different names, build a parallel identity for them so when they reach an age of needing to disappear, you will be able to help them.

That was sarcasm ecobore. This is about controlling immigration and as a side benefit collecting more bio-information on people. The Brits have been collecting personal identification like DNA and finger prints for a long time now.

As the global population swells I don't know what people would have them do. A lot of this is necessary when you have a lot of people living close together. The problem is we don't trust our government to be sane and they seem to have validated that perception.

Asian countries have been coping with these sorts of problems for a long time. As a result their society is structured differently than ours. We will eventually reach our own solution but it will take time and there will be conflict.

One thing is certain, we can't go back to the way things were 30 years ago. That really would be suicide.

You can pass out through customs and immigration, then go back in through security controls if you want to circumnavigate the finger printing process.

However on a short connection this could mean the difference between making and missing your flight as the waiting times at Heathrow security are horrendous.

What does that LSE guy mean "There will also be a suspicion that this is the thin end of the wedge"..??!! The UK is already so far down the wedge it's unreal. As a UK ex-pat it scares me to go home and see how much more prolific the cameras have become. As well as all the CCTV and speed cameras, there's now average speed cameras that check your speed over miles and miles of road.
I make a point when I go home of avoiding Heathrow even if it costs more to go via other airports, but soon it will be everywhere.

I can't see how this helps. As others have pointed out, all it takes is a sleeper who can get genuine ID. By definition suicide bombers don't have a prior history. And what difference would it make if you were going to take out some domestic transport if you picked a plane or a train..? The effect on the traveling public would be the same. In fact, there's no need for any terrorists to actually do anything because the Orwellian gubermints are making it just as difficult to travel as if an attack had already taken place.

Is it really a fingerprint or just a scan like Disney does? At Disney, the scans of the print creates numerical information about certain points on the print and the image itself is not stored.

posted by mattymatt:

Here in the US, we have some strong legal-type words about "unreasonable search and seizure." Does England have something comparable?

But they do have lots of telescreens^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hsurveillance cameras for your security (link). And universal health care and great gun control laws! A small price to pay!

As already noted, the thin end of the wedge passed by quite a while ago. And they're just now STARTING to suspect? ROFL!

will Gummi fingers work?

Why do they hate us for our frequent flyer miles?

Unlike some wars, the War on Travel appears winnable, so that's the one being fought.

If you had done your research you would have found that the terrorists the government is after consider the number 5 as their lucky number. It is in the Koran!. Do your homework!

I've just got to step in here and give my 2 pence..

First of all: London =\= UK

Also, a lot of you are enjoying getting to point a finger at the UK for once, and saying "oh, look at the mindless sheep", and "how awful your little totalitarian state is", when, in fact, the UK enjoys FAR truer and open public/media debate on EVERYTHING that the government does, than the US.

Did you see the difference between the UK and US Anonymous Protests? (not particularly important politically I know, but it just speaks to the idea orf protest, which I think is far more prevalent in the UK than they are being given credit for here. For further info, check out the ReclaimTheStreets protests, McLibel, MinersStrikes etc.

Some of the security apparatus in the UK comes from a time when they had an ACTUAL terrorism problem (like the tube ticketing-system being able to track people's movement through the system, mentioned above), unlike the vastly more comprehensive schemes you (US readers) are facing, from a virtually non-existent threat.

And Britain does have Stop & Search laws, but they are limited similarly to US ones, in the "reasonable cause" sense, and the paperwork involved (for each and every S&S) stems it somewhat (although there is always some politician or another pushing for stricter powers, eg. David Cameron this week).

Also, I note, someone above mentioned the Disney Ticket Tag system, and no one responded. (I know, I read the pamphlets, Disney says it's system isn't "evil", meh.)

YES, the UK, and London in particular, do have some very dodgy shit going on regarding privacy vs. security, just like the US, but:
I have worked and lived and hired cars in central London, I have never been asked for finger prints, and never been stopped or searched.
I don't get treated as a criminal when I leave a shop, having to produce a receipt for the goods I've purchased (not all shops, I know, just a point).
I do have an OysterCard (mentioned above) but it isn't registered in anyone's name or address, it is anonymous.

Now please don't paint me as a Big Brother proponent- or indeed a sheep who has bought the party line, I am so far from it, it would laughable. I do not defend the Orwellian-faction of British government and sometimes I am truly scared of the level of surveilance London enjoys.

I just think it's unfair to jump on the British populace for being mindless sheep, when there seems to be a far healthier atmosphere of public discourse and rationality in both the British population in general, and it's government, than in the US, IMHO.
Just because a law exists, doesn't mean the people (all or any) agree with it, democracy or no. Look at ANY government in the world and you will find dissent.

Sorry for the long post, I was aiming for clarity, and trying to avoid having to defend what I hope are reasonable and sane comments. I am expecting fire. Much fire. Flame away.

Disclosure: I am NOT British.

It doesn't get much play here on BB, but ASBOs (Anti-Social Behavior Orders) seem like a very Orwellian social control in Britain. They're like US restraining orders, but very fine-tunable to individuals and apparently much easier to obtain than in the US. From reading BBC online, they seem to be handed out very commonly. We always talk about tracking people, but ASBOs limit the movements of the trackees.

The funny thing about ASBOs is, they kind of backfired, as they are incredibly difficult to enforce.

The have turned into a badge of honour for the youth of Britain, and are a fantastic way to taunt your local officer. There is basically an invisible line, over which the ASBO-receiver cannot go, so they make a point of playing chase-me around it, so long as they aren't over the INVISIBLE line, they can't be reprimanded.

ASBOs were never a good idea, and they haven't really worked out. That said, I don't like them, and don't think they help a truly difficult problem.

Also, you mention "We always talk about tracking people, but ASBOs limit the movements of the trackees" but an ASBO is just a bit of paper, there is no device or ID check between "zones" (they aren't called zones, that's creepy) so the only way to get caught.. is to get caught.

Same as being on probation beyond the limits you have been released under. Sure you can leave the state when you've been told not to, but you have to be caught for it to be "illegal".

That was my impression. Once you're given out your first million, they're a bit hard to enforce. But imagine giving an ASBO to someone for political reasons. They'd manage to enforce that one.

Well, it's true I suppose, there is probably scope within the wording of the ASBO law to target anyone for anything if they put their nefarious police minds to it.. But the police have always had that power.
As long as people knew about it (quite a large qualifier, I'll grant you) it would not be stood for.
(Although, preaching terrorism is both a political view, and an arrestable one, and folk don't seem to mind that, reasonably enough)

However, curse or no: We live in interesting times.

When in the Course of airport events, it becomes necessary for one airport to dissolve the customer service bands which have connected them with consumers, and to assume among the steely powers of the night sky, a separate station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of consumers requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that if all men are fingerprintable then no man if fingerprintable, that men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty the pursuit of Happiness and no inked fingers at airports.

The right of the bus riders or sky bus riders to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause.

Hear! Hear!

now bend over for bushie

Have you read the works of Mr Tom Sharpe? (eg: "Wilt")

Perhaps they should be asking for two fingers to get prints from.