What would you do if you ended up in the year 1000?

The Marginal Revolution blog poses the musical question, "If you were transported back to the middle ages, what would be the top strategy for thriving?" Given that most of us can't make gunpowder from scratch (and don't have up-to-date smallpox vaccinations), dreams of becoming a technological pre-Enlightenment billionaire guru are probably not realistic (stipulating that "realistic" is probably not a good word to use in respect of responses to hypothetical time-travel questions).
First build grubstake by minstrelsy. I hope you remember some three chord Stones songs, or perhaps some blues. Next, I would suggest the magic of fractional reserve banking in a market town. Expand the banking operations to other market towns. Hire bodyguards. Loan money to the king. Loan money to the other king. Start a war. Loan money to the Pope, etc.
Posted by: Rebunga at Jun 6, 2008 12:15:47 PM
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That there link takes you to boingboing.net old chap.

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I'd offer to go back in time to fix it but - oh well.

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Oh and you could teach the germ theory of medicine. That would rapidly improve the world can't see you making much money out of it.

Also - in principle the tools needed to take photograph were discovered by the 1500's so if you only went back 500 years you could make the connection for people and give humanity an extra half centuary of photographs. Though who remembers how photographs actually work without heading to wikipedia?

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#4 posted by burble , June 11, 2008 2:11 AM

I think I'd remember enough science to get by. For example, basic healthcare advice would go a long way to improving the lives of those around me, and I'm pretty sure a basic two-stroke engine would make me plenty of money. Of course though, I'd probably be burnt at the stake as soon as they saw me wearing glasses and a digital watch...

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#5 posted by Matt J , June 11, 2008 2:14 AM

Teaching germ theory would be in the category of things that would get you burned at the stake.

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#6 posted by Ingmar Author Profile Page, June 11, 2008 2:16 AM

I recommend Mark Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court". It deals with the exact same topic. Oh, and I agree, basic 21st century knowledge should give you a headstart. You can always go discover America, if you feel like it :)

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#7 posted by Ingmar Author Profile Page, June 11, 2008 2:18 AM

@5: Nah, you just have to know how to seel it. It's all about scrubbing away the devil's miasma with holy water, don't you see?

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Am I the only one for whom the phrase "First build grubstake by minstrelsy.." holds no meaning to me? Is this Newspeak? or is it perfectly clear to those fluent in American English?

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#10 posted by JulianR , June 11, 2008 2:37 AM

Well, I guess most of you Americans would have to sit it out with the Indians. The question is only valid for us Europeans.

My personal recommendation is: Don't stick out, try to blend in, don't get any ideas and go to church. Go. To. Church. If not, you'll be labeled a heretic and burned at the stake.

I think I'd try to go as a barber-surgeon, always cooking out instruments and all the cloth for sterility ( beating Ignaz Semmelweis to the principle, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis ), but at the first sight of the black death, I'd be running for the hills.

Or I'd work in trade, maybe trying to establish some tiny little invention from today.

Or, I could help found a brewery, especially the local one over here, which was founded in 1040: http://www.brauerei-weihenstephan.de

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#11 posted by burble , June 11, 2008 2:38 AM

@9: Yes, that made no sense to me either at first. I figure they mean "make enough money for food (grub) by busking (travelling minstrel)"

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#12 posted by morris , June 11, 2008 2:40 AM

I think I'd quietly kill myself. Have we not seen Back to the Future? Too much messing about in the past would cause our current state in time to change and I wouldn't want to be the one responsible.

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"Grubstake by minstrelsy" is certainly an odd turn of phrase. I know "grubstake" from the Grubstake burger joint on Pine St. in San Francisco. And I know minstrel so minstrelsy has to be its adverb.

I memorized the formula for gunpowder years ago in case this very thing happened: charcoal, sulfur, and saltpeter (potassium chloride).

I would be a GOD.

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#14 posted by WA , June 11, 2008 2:47 AM

Skeptobot, it very much depends on what one wants to do. One could certainly try to selflessly make immense improvements in the world as a whole, if that were one's object.

If one's object, one the other hand, were to , consider a religious sect where the commands of its leader really did protect the devoted from many diseases (just boiling and such would do). The production of penicillin or other antibiotics could be a challenge to the biologically inclined that could have major potential for profit as well.

However, I have to dispute the argument that a variety of technological innovations couldn't be managed. For the chemically inclined, why bother with gunpowder (by which I presume black powder was meant) when one could produce nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin, and ether, with relative ease, assuming some access to nitric and sulfuric acid, allowing one to make all sorts of impressive explosives. For those with some knowledge of electricity, how hard would it be to make motors, heaters, and such simple things? And don't forget steam power as well, which with care should not be too difficult.

Of course, as has been noted, one has to take care not to offend the church. But that is simply a requirement that one be rather good at politics.

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Being able to read and write helps a lot. However, you'll have to brush up on your Latin.

The Ben Stiller Show had a take on this, with The B-Minus Time Traveller. Janeane Garofalo goes back in time to the American Revolution but she only remembered enough history to get by and is finally told off by an exasperated General Washington. Something along the lines of,if she's a future American, why bother?

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#16 posted by adodge , June 11, 2008 2:49 AM

I can't believe no one has mentioned the Temporal Prime Directive.

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@14.

The major constraint on a significant number of the proposals above is machining precision. It wasn't until the 1860's that the rifle was developed as one of the big benefits of advances in machining.

Additionally, the discovery of steel as a strong, but machinable material was also essential to any of the following list:

motors, engines, generators, etc.

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While I will now be adding "grubstake by minstrelsy" to my lexicon, I would like to point out that playing any Rolling Stones song or any other song in our contemporary catalouge that includes a flatted fifth in melody or harmony will get you accused of devil worship pretty quick. Furthermore, since most modern pop songs derive equally from West African ideas of harmony (uses of sharped and flatted 6ths, 7ths, 9th scale tones) that didn't exist in European modal music, you're really going to have to think about that minstrely career path. However, lyrically you could probably be popular with some Kansas songs.

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motors could be made with lodestones and copper windings - although insulation materials might be difficult. gutta-percha and laytex are all from the new world.
the witch-craft/devil stuff probably shouldn't be underestimated. the relationship between non-observable causal phenomena would fall for most into the good/evil bracket, as people simply didn't think any different. it would all depend who you are a threat to - make yourself useful to the church first maybe.

advancing the rediscovery of plato and aristotle might be a good way of helping things along, as that didn't happen for another couple of hundred years if memory serves. mind you the crusades were kicking off, so meeting arabs on a friendly basis was hard.

it's all so complicated. who's stupid idea was this?


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#20 posted by Raj77 , June 11, 2008 3:47 AM

You'd have 96 years before the First Crusade, it'd be OK.

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#21 posted by bnt , June 11, 2008 3:47 AM

Stuff the Temporal Prime Directive! It only mattered in Back To The Future because the heroes knew they'd be directly affected by their machinations. If I went back 1000 years, with no prospect of return, I'd let the future take care of itself - or I'd try to improve it. Could it be much worse than the last century has been?

The Renaissance started in the 15th Century: why not 500 years earlier? We call the preceding years in Europe the "Dark Ages", because dissemination of knowledge was suppressed by the Church. I would therefore make it a priority to write down and safeguard the knowledge I had, before I would display it.

Steam power would be great to have, but for that I would need to produce metals of better quality, and it so happens I have studied basic metallurgy. For example, I would build a coking furnace to produce coke, which lets you produce wrought iron, with less carbon and other impurities.

If I had the chance, I would learn Latin, and travel to Italy to study Roman technology. They invented Concrete, but that knowledge was lost for about 1600 years, and I know enough about it to re-invent it. Never mind Gothic cathedrals, I'm thinking of the kind of masonry skyscrapers they built in Chicago before steel became available.

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#22 posted by TJ , June 11, 2008 3:48 AM

I'd be a LUMBERJACK!

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#23 posted by mlennox Author Profile Page, June 11, 2008 3:53 AM

Invent democracy, unionise the army first otherwise you are buggered! Then introduce algebara, calculus, mechanics, build war machines and let the 'new model army' sweep across Europe deposing the monarchy. Finally, establish polygamy and live in hapiness with your X wives / husbands / whatever.

Grubstake - To provide the materials a prospector needs, including food and money, in return for a percentage of any claim that the prospector might find.

Minstrelsy - The music and poetry of the medieval minstrels.

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I'm not sure I'd last a week without a proper shower. The very lack of a good layer of dirt on me would probably get me burned at the stake. So, the answer to the question is "not much"

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#25 posted by Maurik , June 11, 2008 4:19 AM

Screw Europe!! Seriously, some of the best mathematicians came from the Middle East. Abū Sahl al-Qūhī, Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī,Ibn al-Haytham, Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawi. (Ok thanks Wiki)

I'd try my best to abolish religion from the middle east, essentially, that's what's held it back from thriving. In the year 1000 some of the greatest minds came from Persia.

By introducing fuel made from a simple fractional distilation column and creating electrical power from a basic turbine. It's fairly basic science. I can have the industrial revolution in the middle ages, almost a millenium in advance.

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The technical problems are the least problematic in terms of survival. That whole "Loaning money" thing? No. One of the major reasons that the middle ages went on so long were usury laws the forbade (excessive) interest on loans. Sometimes "excessive" meant any interest at all, which quashed the incentive for economic development, which in turn restrained expansion and the development of the larger economic systems that drove the renaissance and industrial revolution. You also had to deal with an entrenched social system (church hegemony, restrictive guild systems and the like )that kept things stagnant. You probably could develop stainless steel or an ethanol turbine, but you'd starve in the process (or be burned at the stake).

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Perform CPR and/or the heimlich maneuver on the king.

But seriously... I'd keep my head low. Anything out of the ordinary would freak people out and likely result in you being burned at the stake.

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#28 posted by NaR Author Profile Page, June 11, 2008 4:51 AM

You don't need to make gunpowder to be super-powerful. Gears would be pretty amazing, as would glass windows, aqueducts, bicycles, chimneys with drafts, franklin stoves, eyeglasses, printing press, crop rotation, sewing machines, typewriters, etc.

Most of us have basic knowledge of how these things work and could rig up working models to wow the locals and totally change history.

Plus, just knowing that gunpowder is possible makes discovering how to make it possible.

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what about flight? that would be a piece of piss.

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*seanfitz - i just had a vision of you running into his majesty's chambers brandishing a pair of electric eels.

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I hate to be so pessimistic but none of us would survive more than 4 or 5 days in the middle ages. Their version of English was as different to todays as French is to English. You would need to be able to communicate in some way and to learn the language you would need time. You wouldn't have time because you would be starving to death from the moment you arrived. You might stumble on a farm except there were no farms only thousands of small holdings owned by the landowner and run by his serfs. Each one would generate enough food to keep the serfs from starving and the landowner in luxury. You couldn't hunt as all the animals belonged to the Lord of the manor and the punishment for poaching was death. The punishment for stealing food was death or a long spell in jail where you were obliged to pay your way. Result:death. If you arrived in some of the cities you might be able to grunt away to the effect that you are starving and would like some work please but you would need to get behind a line of hundreds of other starving people who can speak the language. You've memorised the formula for gunpowder? How are you going to buy the ingredients? You can only hope the knowledge keeps you warm as you lie down at the side of the muddy road and get ready to die.
No, the best thing to do if you get transported back to the year 1000 is to pray that someone transports you back , pronto.

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#23

"Invent Democracy"
"the year 1000"

You may want to touch up on your history there.

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@nihilarian said: "i just had a vision of you running into his majesty's chambers brandishing a pair of electric eels."

Yeah... yelling: "STAT!"

(I have no idea what it means, but the actors in hospital TV shows always yell it at times of emergency.)

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#34 posted by Certhas , June 11, 2008 5:26 AM

How do you survive the first week?

Also you are not familiar with the culture, the language, etc. People got along, social structures existed as did "wisdom of the crowds" style knowledge both of which you have no access too. You basically will have a tough time doing anything.

What would I do? Head for a monastry. Become a monk. That's probably one of the few ways to get the materials and time to seriously write. If you want to improve things for the future generations forget about trinkets and gadgets like penicillin or the motor.

Establish the scientific method! All you guys have been thinking about is giving them technology. They already have all the technology they need, the Romans who disappeared a few centuries ago had far superior technology! Gears, heated floors (a concept that still hasn't made it to the UK for example), etc.

At the time around 1000ad you can find a few universities if you manage to get enough stuff together to be able to travel that far, there is one in Marocco, the University in Bologna is still a few decades off. Now these universities are preserving knowledge gained during greek times but aren't contributing too much, new scientific and mathematical knowledge will only start to be produced a few centuries hence after the renaissance sweeps Europe. At around 1000ad Fes, Marroco might be the best place to try to kickstart the scientific revolution.

But to get started, seek out a monastry! Live as a monk. Brew beer. tend the gardens. This seems to be the place where your modern knowledge would be most likely to come in useful towards your everyday survival.

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Thinkerer (#26) is correct: the loaning of money at interest was generally forbidden to Christians in Medieval Europe (which is why it fell to the Jews to invent banking as we know it - and from such germs of historical truth are vile antisemitic canards born).

Me? I know how to start a loaf from sourdough, I don't mind working at night, and I can knead for hours: I figure I'd be okay. The village baker never starves. Also, I know all thirteen verses of "She Moved Through the Fair," so minstrelsy is also an option.

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This is so easy:

1. Get Underpants
2. ???
3. Profit!!

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#37 posted by Faustus , June 11, 2008 5:50 AM

I think everyone is overestimating how easy it would be to do anything at all. All this "creating electrical power from a basic turbine" isn't so basic when you can't machine metal, you don't have any money, everyone thinks you're mad, you can't speak the language, you're about 6 inches taller than everyoen and you stick out like a sore thumb because you have teeth and there's not even anything useful to do with the electricity once you've made it.

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Landing in Europe at about A.D.1000 - would be fortuitous. This was actually a very good time to be in Europe - as a mini-renaissance was underway. I would seek out one of the reasons for this mini-renaissance, Gerbert of Aurillac - who became Pope Sylvester II in 998. Gerbert was renowned for his knowledge of natural philosophy and mathematics - an early adapter of Indo-Arabic numerals, a wizard on the abacus, the very text book definition of "geek" for his time. I Gerbert and I would have much to talk about ( I would have to do a lot with just hand gestures because my Latin is pretty rusty), and all I would have to do would be to solve a quadratic equation or two, maybe do some Pythagorean triples. Look up this remarkable man right here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Sylvester_II

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As an artist, about the only transferable skill would be the ability to draw. Shave my head and take on a begging bowl, find a monastery, as Certhas suggests. Maybe a sign painter or eventually some kind of artist or painter. Needs a patron. But here we all think of magical transport to Europe. Thrown back to 1000 AD in North America? Hmmm...

Make myself as harmless as possible, wandering 'monk'.

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Yeah, Faustus, even then I would be remarkably strange. 54 years old, taller and with teeth, relatively pale skinned with ancient-future boy scout skills. All I would have is knowledge of the future. My fate would be as a mystic. But how to make North America aware of it's fate? Draw on skins the large canoes, the horses, the men in steel...

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I'd stay low-profile, head to where blacksmith/bronzesmith, and get them to pound out the pieces to make Zippo lighters. I don't see how lighters could get you burned at the stake, as it would just be an improvement on an existing "product". Sell those to get a good base established, and then decide what else to do, because it probably won't be the same thing I come up with when I first get back to 1,000 AD.

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#42 posted by Grisly , June 11, 2008 6:27 AM

#13!!!!! Watch out. Potassium Chloride is what we give to death row inmates so they'll shuffle off.
Potassium Nitrate is what you want. Easy enough to make from urine.

I would beat scurvy with my lime orchard and grog recipe then go "Exploring" with my maps. After church.

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I don't like the assumption that we'd all somehow magically end up in Europe. If I ended up here in the Upper Midwest, I'd hope to find some Lakota people who'd take me in (I'm brown and that might help a little), learn the language, and then see whether or not I could warn them about the impending doom and give them tech to the best of my ability.

That is, if my body's germs didn't kill off everybody first.

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#44 posted by demidan , June 11, 2008 6:38 AM

So many things can go wrong, off the top of the head, language. The old , 'You ain't from around here are you boy?' comes to mind. Unless you speak Yiddish and end up in Germany (Yiddish is middle german), I think you might end up being shorter by a head. How many people have Tattoos? My forearm is adorned with a panel from the Bayeux Tapestry,(http://flickr.com/photos/98231037@N00/558325401/),hhhmmmm Did Harold die because of me? Rats!

Your best bet is getting drunk and see what happens, I mean if you are a woman and your hair is shorn you get shorted by a head. These people brooked no fools...

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I would replace my right hand with a chainsaw and keep the primitives at bay with my boomstick. Then I would seek the Necronomicon to help me return home, but not before saving the world from the evil dead and becoming a hero.

Hail to the king, baby.

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#46 posted by eustace , June 11, 2008 6:50 AM

I would spend a lot of time yearning for a date who bathed.

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#47 posted by demidan , June 11, 2008 6:50 AM

@38

Wrong o! 1000AD was not a good time for Europe, the Norse were going a viking then, Ireland was a good place to be. The Knowledge of Europe was flowing to Ireland,(The "Irish" Renaissance was waxing), to keep it from being destroyed by various hordes of barbarous peoples. i.e Normans,Danes, Finns, and the very tail end of the Justinian plague was still a lurking.

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#48 posted by SamSam , June 11, 2008 6:53 AM

Ignoring the language difficulties and how difficult it is to get a good workshop to spend a few months tinkering in when you don't have a penny....

Here are some easy-to-invent, world-changing

* A still. Everybody likes getting drunk. Nobody likes the taste of rotting cabbages. Vodka would be very easy to produce with the technology of the day and generate tons of profit. Whiskey next. (This idea cribbed from the great book Lest Darkness Falls.)

* Printing press. It would start small -- wood block printing on cloth -- but would eventually expand to metal movable type.

* Casting iron. Sand casting will have been around in China and India for a few hundred years already, but is not invented in England until about 1750.

* Wooden bicycle (from the article a few days ago). Doesn't need pedals (I guess this would make it a balance bicycle, or a kind of velocipede). This idea may not work too well on rough cobbles or dirt roads, we'd need to test it.

Those four projects would generate enough billions to give me enough time to think about what else I can invent, while all being (hopefully) simple enough to understand without getting me burned as a witch. The future inventions will be even cooler, but I'm not going to be inventing electricity any time soon. Note that the "copper wire and lode stone" method is never going to get electricity anyway -- you need a way to enamel really thin copper wire, and a lode stone is never going to be powerful enough. A voltaic pile would be much easier to invent, although I'd need to do a lot of experimenting with different metals, because I never remember what's what.

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#48: inventing the still would be an "of course" for de Camp's post-Prohibition America, when the technology, out of necessity, was still widely known, but who these days outside of Appalachia (and maybe not even there) knows how to build one now? That's become specialized knowledge.

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#50 posted by Purly Author Profile Page, June 11, 2008 7:04 AM

Pretend to be dumb so no one catches on that I don't speak olde english, hide anything remotely modern looking, avoid being burned at the stake, maybe make candies for a living.

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#51 posted by djam , June 11, 2008 7:07 AM

Although most of todays technology wouldn't fit in, i'd invent some of the things i see today and make tones of money.

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Some military knowledge and martial arts training could be useful, or at least keep you alive a little longer.

Pillaging and looting could also be an option.

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I'm a simple man and my needs follow.
I would write or rewrite certain greek and middle eastern works, introducing this and that bit of information -methods and corrections- (and encoding my signature in twisting knots by the parchments edge) while cross pollinating ideas in hypertext. Same with christian and islamic texts, a little zen and tao here would do wonders.
While hanging out with the luminaries as "that crazy outsider" in order to appear as an apostle here and there, would use these connections to coax their rich patrons to expand the Silk Route to import dodo and komodo dragon sausages.
It'll take time, but as the increased traffic of information and goods precipitate the development of new sciences, societies and wars, I would seek to hold back the discovery of America, if only to lessen the culture clash.
Meanwhile all this, I would have (not tantric) sex with every woman from Iberia to Yamato, thus spreading my genetic heritage thru the centuries.
By Crom! Screw all that illuminating stuff, I'd be the daddy of you all.

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Sorry, i just wanted to add that the technology to widen the Silk Route would be stylish steam powered machinery, which would mean....

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On reflection, they are going to think I'm mad anyway ("what weird tongue is he jabbering in?") so I might play up the craziness and go for court's jester. A lifetime of pop songs to draw from wouldn't go astray either.

Then I'd perform CPR and/or the heimlich maneuver on the king.

And for all those suggesting they will dazzle the locals with technology... are you serious?! The most advanced piece of technology you'd be able to build would be a lever or an inclined plane under the circumstances.

I think you've all been watching too much MacGyver! :-)

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#56 posted by SamSam , June 11, 2008 7:41 AM

#49:

All a still requires is a way to heat up your alcoholic mash until the alcohol turns to steam, and then to condense that steam back into liquid. It's actually a very simple process, and a still can be a simple as a couple metal/glass containers and some tubing.

Beautiful copper flasks would be preferable, though.

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Kirk built a weapon out of a bamboo stick and homemade gunpowder, and defeated the lizard king, didn't he?

If the Kirkinator can do it, I bloody well should be able to.

What, no magic rocks? Damn it.

Oh, fine then, I'll build gigantic trebuchets and sell them to the highest bidder, make sketches of flying machines, and write a book about my philosophy of how matter is made of little "individisbles" and how disease is spread by "germinators".

Oh, and get some silk and try to make a hot air balloon, or a little glider. Hell, find some paprus and fold it into a paper airplane.

Build a mechanical clock and propose a solution to the "longitude problem" way before people even know its a problem.


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I'm heartened to see so many responses that take into account the rather xenophobic nature of our ancestors! I remember watching "Kingdom of Heaven" and hearing Orlando Bloom preaching secular humanism in the midst of a crusade was...odd.

Assuming I'm in Europe, I'd have a bit of an advantage as I have a masters in medieval history (with passable French and Arabic), a working knowledge of bookbinding and paper-making. I'd likely find a monastery and putter away my life translating and working as a printmaker.

Though I'd likely be unable to resist the temptation to steal a page from Lovecraft's "Shadow Out of Time" and write something utterly modern and squirrel it away to befuddle modern historians! :)

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#59 posted by Takuan , June 11, 2008 7:45 AM

one thousand years ago? I can barely tolerate the ignorance of TODAY!

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#60 posted by holtt , June 11, 2008 7:47 AM

Let's imagine our BoingBoing staff there...

Mark, he could do just fine as long as he could get to a monastery. Clearly with his talent for drawing, he would rapidly rise up as a premier creator of illuminated manuscripts. Some might find Brother Frauenfelder's style a bit quirky, but oddly appealing.

Cory would be nailing his 95 theses to every church door he could find and telling everyone they were free to remix or create derived works from them. On a sub-note, he would become fascinated by the whole look of the 900's as an aesthetic applied to technology of the 1000's, identifying it as Fumo Fabrica (Steam Craft).

David would be happy getting a job as a scribe in a church, writing what he could on the fascinating technology of the times as well as musings about what might be. Longing for his old website, he would "invent" file folders and the concept of hierarchy and inadvertently stumble on a vital organizational tool for the church and society.

Xeni would probably have the hardest time. "Get thee to a nunnery" comes to mind but my my, would the whole "silence and saintliness" thing be an issue. Eventually, she would opt to go in disguise as "Brother Beni" just to be able to live it up a bit. Eventually, she would get the brothers to loosen up a bit, and even get them to all wear giant cupcakes on their heads when they'd dipped a bit too much into the beer.

John would try desperately to recreate search engine technology in the larger libraries of the day. Eventually giving up on ever having a computer, he would "invent" the PostIt note and use it to add "hyperlinks" to documents in order to refer to other documents. Eventually, he reunites with David and his incredible filing system and together they would create the Mutuus Iunctio (interchanged connection), a paper based version of the internet.

Joel, upon hearing of the rise of the mysterious Mutuus Iuctio would naturally gravitate towards it. Given his interest in writing on technology and its relative lack of existence, he would find it necessary to help create it.

Of course all of them would eventually find each other, but would need a cover story. Saying they were from the "San Franciscan" monastery they would spread the story of Saint Francis (before his birth!) and what a wonderful God-loving,tech-loving kind of guy he was. Eventually when born, Francis would find his page rank (height in a stack of papers) in the Mutuus Iuctio quite high and rapidly rise to fame and saint hood and the eventual founding of San Francisco.

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#61 posted by anthony , June 11, 2008 7:47 AM

Captain Kirk shot Jim Morrison with a bamboo gun? I'm going to have to rent some of those old episodes.

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#62 posted by gd23 , June 11, 2008 7:54 AM

I grapple with these issues everyday, 21st century humans. You, for one, should welcome your 31st century overlord.

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The introduction of sensimellia may have some benefits...

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#64 posted by noen , June 11, 2008 8:06 AM

One mistake that people make is in assuming that the peoples of distant times were stupid. Like those who claim that people were too stupid to have built the pyramids so aliens must have. The people of the past were not stupid and possessed a lot of common knowledge that just didn't make it to our times. So I think that a lot of us would flounder very fast because we just don't know the day to day practical knowledge and cultural demands it would be assumed that you know.

The levels of violence at that time was extremely high but because there were relatively fewer people we don't always realize it. Any place outside of town or a feudal estate was a very dangerous place to be. Most towns had criminals rotting on a post on the road on the edge of town to serve as a warning. But even within the more civilized places the level of person to person violence was high.

So your first task would be to put yourself under the protection of the local strongman or sheriff and make yourself useful to him. The fact that you are literate would help once you mastered the language. You could be a cleric, but you are also very tall so perhaps you could be a thug in his employ. You would have to watch it though because being smart and large would make you an instant threat.

I don't think I's last very long without my glasses. I'd just be a blind beggar.

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#65 posted by Takuan , June 11, 2008 8:10 AM

in other words,life a thousand years ago is pretty much like life today in a poorly run, maximum security prison.

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Thus spake noen: "One mistake that people make is in assuming that the peoples of distant times were stupid"

You are right, but if they were half gullible as of today, one could play with that.

Remember: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Also, a big gun would help.

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This is not an academic exercise or science fiction fantasy. There are two conditions where this might be very useful information.

(1) The speculative madness that results from the fears of Peak Oil oscillates the economy to the point where it breaks down for lots of people. Check out the books "World Made By Hand" by James Howard Kunstler or "War Day" by Whitley Strieber/James Kunetka for descriptions of modern societies knocked back a few centuries.

(2) You move or get exiled to a part of the world that is still living as we did 1000 years ago. You know who I'm talking about. "Baywatch" videos for the rich well-to-do's and psychopathic religious fascists for everybody else.

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I think perhaps I'ld make a tea...or maybe a dish that everyone found quite delicious...

*Yummie Factor*

I'ld sculpt my body into the form most desired by the opposite sex...

*Rabbit Hormones*

...perhaps I would be polite and helpful to those around me...

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This is not an academic exercise or science fiction fantasy. There are two conditions where this might be very useful information.

(1) The speculative madness that results from the fears of Peak Oil oscillates the economy to the point where it breaks down for lots of people. Check out the books "World Made By Hand" by James Howard Kunstler or "War Day" by Whitley Strieber/James Kunetka for descriptions of modern societies knocked back a few centuries.

(2) You move or get exiled to a part of the world that is still living as we did 1000 years ago. You know who I'm talking about. "Baywatch" videos for the rich well-to-do's and psychopathic religious fascists for everybody else.

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I'm a woman. I'd have no rights and would immediately become someone's property. If I got REALLY lucky I'd get to be chattel for some wealthy land holder (I'd have all my teeth so I'd be ahead of most women) but chances of that are REALLY slim since I wouldn't speak the language and I wouldn't be part of the appropriate class system to even meet such a person. Without breeding and background appropriate to the time I'd be at the mercy of any male large enough to dominate me.

I'd probably find a rope to hang myself with before I was raped, tourtured, burned, beaten, or submitted to servitude. (providing I'm in Europe)

Now, if I appeared in my native Kentucky I might have a decent shot. I have white skin, red hair, freckles, and blue eyes so I would appear as quite an anomaly to the native people. That might work in my favor ie: they might build me into thier mythology which could afford me special treatment OR they might immediately percieve me as something dangerous and kill me.

Regardless...I'd rather take my shot in the US.

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A thousand years ago I'd be an old man at the age of 48. Tall and skinny, with white hair, I'd be the most conspicuous person in sight. Survival would be a matter of accident, with 19 chances out of 20 leading to a messy death. With no language skills, I'd basically be a laborer in rapidly declining health. Labor would only be needed in high mortality jobs like mining, the military, commercial sailing, etc. If I could last a month I'd have a shot at lasting a year.

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#72 posted by Ignatz , June 11, 2008 8:42 AM

You wouldn't have to introduce 'modern' tech, just resurrect some of the old Roman stuff and bring in a few late-Medieval and Renaissance concepts.

Take military concepts. Find a local king, preferably one having trouble with the Normans. Introduce the idea of a trained infantry, armed with pikes, Roman scutums, and armor-piercing arrows (doesn't take much to make a bodkin point). Then point them at a unit of Norman or Frankish cavalry and watch the fun. Make your name as a military advisor.

On the sly, forge a lost manuscript of Galen or the Tacuinum Sanitatis advocating soap and water.

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#73 posted by chgoliz , June 11, 2008 8:42 AM

One commenter at the link made an interesting point: the 21st century American man who came up with this idea is almost certainly circumcised. This means that every European of the time (1000CE) would "know" he wasn't Christian or Muslim. He would have to find the local Jews and assimilate into their group in order to survive.

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I'm not sure "minstrelsy" would have quite as low a threshold for entry as the above quotation would lead one to believe. As far as we know, popular music of the time used some pretty sophisticated time signatures (try 11/4 or 11/8, or some of the Bulgarian compound meters). Also, while I can't speak for the 11th Century, by the 12th most of the Troubadours were actually minor aristocrats or well-off bourgeois associated with various courts. Many went on crusades and one, Folquet de Marseille, eventually became the Bishop of Toulouse.

Also, don't underestimate the level of cosmopolitanism that would have been evident among the higher ranks of society. Again in the 12th Century, the Earls of Orkney and their men (most of whom would have been relatively prosperous farmers who dabbled in piracy) were known to have visited the Holy Land and Constantinople.

For those of you with looking towards a monastic existence, your French and Italian won't help you as much as Latin (although somewhat more than modern English).

Myself, I would probably try to head for China by way of Central Asia. At least they new the value of a good hot bath.

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#75 posted by Certhas , June 11, 2008 9:12 AM

A lot of people here fail utterly at the "imagine what it would be like" test, still thinking completely within our contemporary categories just replacing a few details or single variables with their presumed version of what it must have been like.

What #64 said, those were functional societies with a functional body of knowledge you'd have no access too.

Also the whole idea that if you invent something you can make billions somehow. How? How do you manufacture it? How do you distribute it? How do you prevent others who are more powerful and better connected from simply killing you and building it yourself? How do you even create a prototype if you are not in the right guild in the right city? etc... I personally have basically no idea how economy really functioned back then, do you?

You are assuming that only the knowledge is gone but that somehow you still have access to the infrastructure and social structures of today to reap the benefits of reinserting the knowledge into the system.


On another note, someone interesting I came across while looking up stuff today:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildegard_von_Bingen

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Oy. Best case: _Lest Darkness Fall_, L. Sprague de Camp.

Most likely case: "The Man Who Came Early," Poul Anderson.

(Long ago I taught this course, so I've seen the answers in the back of the book.)

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I'd begin making LOL tapestries.

As a woman I'll try binding my breast to try to pass as a man, or try my hand at being an old woman. Agism and sexism may help me remain invisible as long as I don't do anything pretty blatant.

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#78 posted by milovoo , June 11, 2008 9:39 AM

I'll bet just about everyone here can draw a rough world map or trace it on a globe from memory.

That skill alone should be worth a fair bit of money if you're in one of the seafaring explorer towns where they kept even basic inaccurate maps under lock and key as state secrets. It's also fairly simple to explain with some pointing and gesturing.

(Yes, I've given it quite a bit of thought. No, I don't know why)

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#79 posted by demidan , June 11, 2008 9:40 AM

Fun fun fun!

@58 Nice to hear from another MA in medieval history.

Ah to live in the dark ages, If I could bring my armour (SCA heavy weapons!), and a good shovel for my more than certain death, (That was not a light hit, go down you rhino!),,,aaack mumble mumble.

Brutal days where these, Xenophobic just scratches the surface. Not to mention that things like drinking water was spotty at best ,(no thanks), food, mmm dirt, language, being 6'4" and a red head, covered in ink,(and not simple Pictish styles), including a Kali-ma covering my chest. I guess could be fun for a day or two, but the shovel in the end...

as for the Ladies in the que,,, think Oil cloths,(no Tampax etc,,,) and yeast galore! (sorry, not the land of hygiene).

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#80 posted by rebdav , June 11, 2008 9:48 AM

#1-Find local Jewsih ghetto set up as doctor with my Hebrew and dismal Yiddish.
#2-Once I can feed myself play Ben Franklin ie batteries, radio, print, antibiotics, modern surgery, anesthesioligy, lightbulbs, generators, steam power, etc.
#3-Use influence to reduce pressure on Jews in Europe.
#4-Play Terminator with my home forged firearms and eliminate the Hitler family, sorry I know the future.

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#81 posted by demidan , June 11, 2008 9:49 AM

Just a thought,,,read Umberto Eco's Bauldolino it is a little later in time but gives a great description of medieval live.

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#82 posted by rebdav , June 11, 2008 9:57 AM

Smallpox, infect yourself right away from the puss of a cowpox eruption, get sick get better, get immune.

Black powder- sulfur one part, charcoal three parts, nitrate five parts.

Extract nitrates from guano, bird doo, or where animals urinate. Neutralize acid with wood ash, boil down, filter over paper(ok year 1000, silk, cloth etc) if hard alcohol is available add this to the mix. boil solution removing any salt crystals that form. Once it is really boiled down let it air dry.

I wont go into hand forging a firearm, just find a copy of Firefox #6 from the firefox books series.

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Russell Letson @76: Thank you--I was wracking my brain trying to remember "The Man Who Came Early." Loved that story, especially its reversal of the notion that a gun and matches would amaze and mystify the "primitives."

Me, I'd just go around yelling "I am KIROK!!!"

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#84 posted by rebdav , June 11, 2008 10:00 AM

As long as I am in the Jewish ghetto I have a yeshiva to learn in AND much not getting burned at the stake for science, just for being a filthy Jew.

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#76 @ Russell Letson

Thanks, I've been trying hard all afternoon to remember who wrote that story. It's closest to what I think would happen.
http://www.timetravelreviews.com/shorts/man_who_came_early.html


For those that imagine 'inventing' things will work out well, remember that in a time when all the social structures for upwardly mobile inventors are absent you will fail hard.

Imagine a future-person trying to invent and market a plutonium and plasma dependent anti-gravity field/beam today. Obtaining the materials would only be half of it, if it worked at all you would be found dead in a ditch.


Remember that Gutenberg became a bankrupt, while his rich investors took the rewards.

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#86 posted by rebdav , June 11, 2008 10:20 AM

Yes, I would also invent water sanitation (boiling, creamic, or sand filteration) and water seal toilets using log and tar sewer pipe systems. Then people will say my name not Sir John Harington when they use the John.

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"Remember to soak the beans! Soak the beans!"

Of course, that's 300 years too early. Bonus points to anyone who gets it.

Me, I like the deaf and dumb stratagem, although I could see becoming a healer who keeps things sterilized.

D

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#88 posted by Daemon , June 11, 2008 10:40 AM

Interesting how few people seem to be taking into account the fact that nobody would understand a word you say. First you have to survive long enough to pick up the language and basic social and economic rules of the time and location.

Because, honestly, if you don't have those three, you're going to have a hell of a time getting anywhere no matter what kind of knowledge you've got.

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#89 posted by OM Author Profile Page, June 11, 2008 10:55 AM

"I'd annex the Sudetenland. After I set a fire under Lord Snowden."

"Imagine a future-person trying to invent and market a plutonium and plasma dependent anti-gravity field/beam today. Obtaining the materials would only be half of it, if it worked at all you would be found dead in a ditch."

...It's Spock's "Stone Knives and Bearskins" analogy, natch. What's avaiable at the Five and Dime in one era is unobtanium in another. Remember, kids - there's ways the Ancients did things on a reasonably easy basis that we're still not sure how the hell they pulled that off, and that's not just the Pyramids, either.

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Given that my name is John Harrison I think I'd ahve to be a clockmaker.

Orson Scott Card's Pastwatch is an interesting exploration of the ideas at play here. In order to save the planet from environmental disaster scientists go back in time to help the people of the Americas conquer Europe.

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#39: Actually, a modern day artist would probably have the easiest time of just about any modern day specialist, for one simple reason - you almost certainly know how to use perspective, which didn't get invented until the Renaissance. Just find somebody who looks rich, make a charcoal drawing, watch them go "wow!" and you'd be set. You wouldn't even have to worry much about your present lack of language skills. (Assuming you can bargain via gestures, for the time being.) Just don't piss off the Church, since they'll be your most likely patron.

As for discovering America, wasn't the Greenland colony dying out about then? I would think medieval naval technology just wouldn't be up to the task. Technological innovations would run into the problems others have mentioned. Monasteries were the universities of their day, and were pretty much limited to the nobility or the very rich commoners. A "vagabond" who couldn't speak Latin wouldn't have much of a chance of getting in.

I'm a philosophy student. I have troubles finding a living wage in *this* century. I don't even want to think about 1000 AD.

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I'm really surprised no is going sailing to Byzantium.

The richest and most civilized of the European states with rich and cosmopolitan city in Constantinople (perfect for fitting in).

You could join the Byzantine bureaucracy ( perfect for getting a few tax farming contracts).

You could join Basil the Bulgar Slayer in few campaigns.

You could while away your days on a sunny greek island eating olives and drinking wine.

The vast corpus of roman technology and law and civilization has ended up there so you can tinker away to your hearts content without worrying about being burned.