Bfr vryn strts rlng n th Chns, wld lk t bt tht ths gys wr trtd bttr thn r wn gns trt ppl hr whn thy chs t dtn thm. crtn Mr. Ng cms t mnd fr xmpl.

Attention, please

Boing Boing and BBTV have hosted numerous posts on the current situation in Tibet. Those comment threads have touched on many issues related to the current and past situation there. Here's a list of some of the livelier discussions about this issue:

Protest inside Tibet captured on tourists' cameras

Police attack peacefully protesting monks in Tibet

Tibet: more deaths, injuries in Lhasa as crackdown grows

Tibet: China blocks YouTube, protests spread, bloggers react

Tibet: nearly 1,000 jailed in Lhasa, Dalai Lama offers to resign

To do in SF - Tibet rally on April 8, Richard Gere, Desmond Tutu

Photo of pro-Tibet protest on Golden Gate Bridge

And of course, the most current posts:

Beijing: Five US activists detained after lighting up "Free Tibet" LED Throwies banner near Olympics site

GRL's James Powderly detained in Beijing for planning pro-Tibet "L.A.S.E.R. Stencil" art protest

Beijing: "Alive in Baghdad" videoblogger among US citizens detained in pro-Tibet protests

Beijing update: New detentions, 6 US protesters missing, Tibetan protesters in Tibet reportedly shot dead.

BBtv WORLD (Tibet): Inside Lhasa

Beijing and Tibet: GRL's James Powderly, Brian of "Alive in Baghdad, 4 other US citizens receive 10-day jail sentence

UPDATE: US citizens detained in Beijing over Tibet protests are released, returning home.

From our Moderation Policy:

7. Failing to notice that there are other people in the conversation. Posting a remark that's already been made five times and answered six. Coming back and re-posting essentially the same material after a twenty-message thread has discussed your previous comment. Trying to forcibly wrench the conversation onto one of your own pet topics. Posting a stale, canned rant you've posted a dozen times before at other sites. Not coming back to see how others have responded to you.

Before posting in this thread, please familiarize yourself with the territory of this ongoing discussion. Repetitive arguments, unsupported claims, cut-and-paste posturing or disingenuous concern for the plight of any and everyone except the subject of the post will be removed. Links to the same articles that have already been linked a dozen times will be removed. Links to up-to-date, reputable news sources are, naturally, most welcome.

Thank you for making this a lively, civil and compassionate discussion about the plight of the Tibetan people.

I guess their release makes sense, considering that the Olympics have ended. Letting them go before the end of their imposed sentence (one that requires no trip through the justice system, and can be imposed by police alone upon arrest) gives the false air of leniency, too.

It is nice to see Chinese government letting these activists go.

However, this also poses a question of were these people let go because of their citizenship or because Chinese government's recognition of international attention it attracted.

Would these activists be released if they had Chinese citizenship? I would highly doubt it. Especially considering the Chinese government has a very long memory.

The release of these activists may be seen from the West as a victory for the Pro-Tibet movement, but what did it really provide?

I am also find it interesting that most Pro-Tibet activists have always focused on what the Chinese government have done wrong, yet there is no mentioning of any thing they have done right.

n wld mst lkly t s bmpr stckrs tht sy "Fr Tbt", yt n n sn stckrs tht sy:

"sk Tbtn bt Plyndry"

r

"Tbtn, Wh s Yr Dddy?!"

Why was my post disemvowelled?

i'm guessin because it was off topic.

hope fully it will make more sense to them then it does to me...

It wasn't.

I just hope these activists visited all the cultural and historical places of interest in China before they pulled these stunts because there almost certainly earned themselves a lifetime ban from the country.

It would be kind of sad if they went straight to protesting for 20 seconds, got jailed and deported. Though I suppose it is a good story.

Sure people say that these were effective protest becauses it got international media coverage (though probably not local, heh), but how much? Did it even hit the frontpage of any major US paper?

They will take their laser pointers and go home with a story to tell.....meanwhile there WILL BE individuals in Tibet and China who end up getting shot or imprisoned long term because these foreign protesters have given the false impression that the rest of the world is going to do anything about their plight other than clever art project protests.

I suspect that western and chinese diplomats had already agreed how to handle foriegn protesters like this - shut them down and ship them back - in exchange for the the west not receiving the Dalai Lama in person or making vocal criticisms of chinese policies... That'd be my guess.

I wonder if it would have been enough for China to disemvowel their banners and such ?

Conversely, I wonder if any governmental spying agency has re-emvowelment software ?

:D

Jean

Why was my post disemvowelled?

"disingenuous concern for the plight of any and everyone except the subject of the post"

Wow, you have to be VERY careful before posting in BB nowadays ;-)

I think the fact that China released these people does not change a bit the unjustifiable fact that they keep detaining people for exercising their right to FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

I have watched some of the Olympics and enjoyed it, but still feel guilty for not having boycotted this huge act of propaganda of a tyrannical regime.

I think the disemvowelment policy is being pushed slightly too far here.

If we're going to make a pretty huge stretch and say that Seyo's or Tian's comments were off topic, then I reckon a massive vowel purge of at least 50% of all comments on all posts on BB is in order.

#14

''...exercising their right to FREEDOM OF SPEECH.''

Does the Chinese costitution specify such a right? If not, then by which authority?

Free speech rights are won at gunpoint. All rights are seized or extorted at gunpoint. There are no ''given'' rights. There never has been. How do you think we got our Bill of Rights?

@ATINOUS: whatever dude.

#16
Free speech rights are won at gunpoint. All rights are seized or extorted at gunpoint. There are no ''given'' rights. There never has been. How do you think we got our Bill of Rights?

Through a peaceful ratification process outlined in the Constitution.

Also, I did not use any firearm pointed at my monitor to effect the posting of this comment. Food for thought.

@ Buddy66:

Article 35. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration.

seyo,

You didn't bother to post a comment in the thread about Mr. Ng dying in custody, but you did manage to drag the issue over here. There are plenty of threads about US human rights abuses. This isn't one of them.

Also, as a naïve European I'd add that the only thing ever "won at gunpoint" is death and destruction.

deadflagblues,

Threads about Tibet and/or China are routinely infested with comments that try to redirect the discussion from the subject at hand to any other subject, usually US human rights abuses at Guantanamo, Iraq, Native Americans, etc. Nobody at BB denies that the US is a notorious human rights abuser. BB constantly has posts about it. So why is it being discussed in a post about Tibet? It cheapens the struggle of the Tibetan people, it glosses over the atrocities committed by China and it demeans the courage of a few protesters who got off their asses and actually did something to bring the attention of the world to the hypocrisy of Beijing's happy fun time Olympic charade.

@21

??? Hitler?

Yes, Hitler won A LOT of death and destruction at gunpoint ;-)

I could have sworn my ancestor carried a musket in 1776. Had something to do with ''rights.''

The Chinese people owe their government another revolution.

A ''naive'' European. I didn't know they still made them.

"A ''naive'' European. I didn't know they still made them."

Can you imagine? The anti-death penalty, pacifist, pro-human rights kind!

Hitler lost. And not by pillow fighting. If Europeans had not met Hitlerian aggression with gun and sword.... what part of Europe do you hail from?

#26,

Yeah, I know the kind. The first to go inside the wire.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to troll or attract so much attention over myself. I write from the Basque Country (in Spain), where some people (b*st*rds) still use concepts like "freedom" and "independence" to justify violence. They are called ETA.

A violent bunch of bastards, indeed. Be careful.

#9 posted by Aloisius:
Sure people say that these were effective protest becauses it got international media coverage (though probably not local, heh), but how much? Did it even hit the frontpage of any major US paper?

Do you see how much response these stories get on BB? Just do a Google news search, you can see for yourself, it's getting widespread international coverage. If your argument is that 'if it's not front-page news, then it's not news', I would say that's a little extreme. The actions by these protesters are just one part of the international push to keep China's actions in Tibet in the public eye.

A lot of people posting on BB seem to want to put-down on these protesters for one reason or another, or try to minimize or trivialize their actions. The irony is that such comments just continue the debate, widen the discussion, and make the actions that much more effective.

I think what they did was an effective action for a worthy cause, and I'm glad they are coming home.

I think Boing Boing should ask James Powderly and the others for a guest editorial on their experiences using tech-art to protest Tibet in China.

I'm glad the American protesters got an early release and will (presumably) return home safely, and I respect their willingness to put their necks on the line for a just cause. Regardless of the fact that Chinese and Tibetan protesters get imprisoned for years or murdered for doing the same thing.

I just wish this sort of thing were more than a minor nuisance to the Chinese Crooks In Charge.

@Atinous: I was drawing a comparison. Since when is commenting in one post a pre-requisite for posting in another? If there is, it's not mentioned in your policy.

I'm glad they've made it home. This particular incident, while stressful, still doesn't strike me as any more worthy of outrage than any other country detaining protesters during the course of some public event.

But at the same time, their detention can only help to draw attention to the Tibetan situation. Every increase in support for Tibet's freedom can only help them, but China remains a stubborn and closed-eyed empire. Their irrational hatred for the Tibetans overshadows all logic.

Covered by the BBC.

I am PROUD of these protestors. I would feel MUCH more hopeless for the silenced voices around the world (particularly in China/Tibet),if no one tried to speak out. Are they truly the only ones who spoke out there?! Out of millions of people?!

My friend and I waited for one real human at the ceremonies to say something, show a sign- almost anything would have been great.

There were 77 groups hoping they could 'sign up' to protest there. It would have been relatively easy to speak up for them there.

Doesn't ANYONE want to ask "Where is Tankman?!". I can't BELIEVE noone has even mentioned him- and in Beijing!!!
What a gutless society. We really could have shown some support.
How cowardly, selfish and short sighted the Olympic tourists are.

One of those recently to return was from here in Austin. Austin Activist Deported From China

These 6 American butterflies will SO affect the weather in China!

Many more Austinites were more like this...

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39367

Wht th wstrn md dsn't tll y s tht mst f th ppl n Tbt dn't ctlly wnt ndpndnc. Frgt tht 50% f th ppltn s Hn nw, vn mst f th ntvs dn't wnt t g bck t th Dl lm rl. Mny f th ldr ppl stll rmmbr wht t ws lk bng slvs ndr th Dl's pprssv thcrcy bfr 1959. sggst y rd p n yr hstry. Lf ndr th CCP sn't grt, bt ts lt bttr thn bfr 1959.

Seeing as the Han chinese got imported into Tibet specifically to dilute the native population, we probably should forget them.

A lot of people posting on BB seem to want to put-down on these protesters for one reason or another, or try to minimize or trivialize their actions. The irony is that such comments just continue the debate, widen the discussion, and make the actions that much more effective.

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally for protesting and what not. It is just the inner geek in me looks at 20 seconds of protesting and thinks... gee, there must be a technological solution to being caught so quickly.

Take the GRL guy... seems to me that you should be able to buy 20 of those laser pointers, hook them up to timer, aim them at a wall and set them to turn on and off in sequence to obfuscate where the beam was coming from or at least increase the amount of time your message was displayed. Maybe aim them at different objects so it is harder to track.

Or maybe build some fireworks, fill them with fortune cookie sized protest messages (yes I know they were created in San Francisco) and fire them up to spread the little papers all over the city.

Or how about a couple hundred little powered speakers with a protest message recorded on it spread throughout the city? (bonus points if you can obfuscate the source of the audio by bouncing it off the environment).

I don't know. Maybe these aren't feasible to bring into the country. It's just that I feel like the protests were... dare I say it... inefficient.

when Gandhi and his followers walked placidly with arms down into the flailing clubs of the oppressive government of the day and went down bleeding without striking back - who won?

These protests are working. You must think for a bit about what they are trying to do.

"when Gandhi and his followers walked placidly with arms down into the flailing clubs of the oppressive government of the day and went down bleeding without striking back - who won?"

You are mistaken the democratic regime of Great Britain with the not so democratic regime of Great China.

Gandhi won because he won the support of the media within Great Britain. How in the world can you win the support of the Chinese media? What is the plan? How's the progress?

There are only 3 practical solutions:
#1 War without outside assistance - aka mass suicide. It certainly will resolve the problem (for China at least).
#2 War with outside assistance - aka WW III which not only solve the Tibetan issue, but also solve the problem of global warming, overpopulation and more.
#3 A humble monk (who won a Noble Peace Prize) thought of a great solution, but sadly nobody paid serious attention to what he said.